Unfinished Business Podcast Episode 5: How Airtasker Built a Marketplace from One Everyday Problem
In Episode 5 of Unfinished Business, Anaita Sarkar speaks with Airtasker co-founder and CEO Tim Fung about the everyday frustration that sparked the platform, the challenge of building both sides of a marketplace and why Airtasker focused first on finding customers with real jobs. Tim also explains how an accessible, pay-after-you-earn model helped create a stronger proposition for taskers.
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Part 2 of this series covers two business mistakes that spiralled into valuable lessons about accountability and systems, while Part 3 focuses on pricing, growth and customer experience with the founder of Tokyo Lamington.
Meet Tim Fung: lessons from Australia's early start-up scene
Before Airtasker, Tim had a front-row seat to the growth of Amaysim, working alongside the German expat founders who built the telecommunications business in Australia.
“I had front row tickets to how this company got built.”
Looking back, Tim says the pathway into start-ups looked very different from today. Accelerators, seed funding and founder communities were far less visible. For many aspiring entrepreneurs, there wasn't a clear roadmap to follow. Instead, people learned by watching others build businesses in real time.
"It wasn't sort of the fanfare that there is today," Tim explains.
That exposure gave him confidence that starting a company might actually be possible, even if the process wasn't entirely clear.
The idea started with moving apartments
Tim says that the idea behind Airtasker didn't begin with a grand mission statement. Instead, it began with moving house.
Tim had asked a friend to help him move. In the process, a simple question emerged: why do people rely on favours from friends when there are plenty of people who would happily earn money helping with jobs like these?
The observation wasn't a fully formed business model. It was a frustration, but one that pointed towards an interesting opportunity. If people needed help getting things done, and other people wanted flexible ways to earn money, perhaps there was a way to connect the two.
That insight became the foundation for Airtasker.
Talk about the idea until the signal becomes clearer
The inspiration didn't immediately turn into a company. Tim describes having a habit of talking through ideas with almost everyone around him. Friends, roommates and his now-wife all played the part of sounding boards for a range of Tim’s ideas.
“When I get an idea in my head, I kind of want to talk about it with lots of people.”
Most of those conversations didn't end well. In fact, Tim jokes that many of his previous ideas received brutally honest feedback from friends. But when he floated the idea of Airtasker, the response was different. For once, most people said it wasn’t a terrible idea. And for Tim, that was enough encouragement to keep going.
The lesson isn't that positive feedback guarantees success. Plenty of well-received ideas never become businesses. But discussing an idea with people can reveal whether it resonates, whether it solves a recognisable problem and whether it's worth exploring further.
Why marketplaces are difficult to start
Many small businesses only need to attract one group of customers, but marketplaces are different. Instead of supplying a solution to a single demographic, marketplaces need to court two groups at the same time. Those groups are customers and suppliers.
In Airtasker’s case, customers need to feel that there are enough suppliers (called ‘taskers’) available to meet their needs, while the taskers need to feel that there are enough jobs to make joining the marketplace worthwhile.
It's a classic chicken-and-egg problem. For Airtasker to appeal to one group, it has to satisfy the needs of the other, and vice versa. As Tim explains, the challenge is getting those early interactions started.
“We’re trying to bring people together.”
To make things even harder, Airtasker deliberately chose not to dictate what work people could do or what prices they could charge. The goal was to empower users, not control them. This decision created a more open platform, but it also made early growth more complicated.
Lower the barrier to entry
One of the decisions Tim believes helped unlock growth was designing a model that worked for both taskers and customers. At the time, many directories and lead-generation platforms acted as advertising exchanges, charging tradespeople and service providers for listings regardless of whether they secured work.
Airtasker took a different approach. Taskers could create an account, browse jobs and connect with customers without paying anything upfront – Airtasker would only earn money if a tasker earned money through the platform – making the platform significantly easier to try.
"We said, come into our club, see all of the customers, talk to people, you make some money, we're going to charge you some money."
Tim credits this win-win structure as one of the key insights that helped early adoption.
Start with the side showing the strongest demand
One of the biggest questions facing any marketplace is where to focus first. Do you recruit more suppliers? Or do you attract more customers?
For Airtasker, the answer only became clear through experience.
"We focused really hard on finding the customers."
The logic went thus - if somebody posted a job and attached a dollar value to it, there would almost always be someone willing to explore doing that work. But there might not always be a customer in need of what a supplier can deliver.
This focus doesn’t imply that supply matters less. It’s a vital part of the marketplace system. But a job board full of genuine demand with dollar values posted for all to see creates a stronger signal than a full inventory of taskers waiting for work to appear.
Weird requests reveal something important
After years of connecting people with jobs, Tim has seen more than his fair share of unusual requests. His examples include hyper-specific Halloween costumes, frozen berry photography and customers with remarkably detailed requirements.
At first glance, they're funny. But Tim sees something more interesting underneath – what's strange to one person is completely normal to someone else.
A customer searching for a Bundt cake costume may seem oddly specific, but to that customer the request makes perfect sense in context. And for Tim, that’s what makes humanity – and life in general – kind of beautiful.
The lesson extends beyond marketplaces. Businesses often succeed not because they solve broad, generic problems, but because they serve highly specific needs that matter deeply to someone.
Key takeaways for founders
The Airtasker story offers several practical lessons for founders thinking about marketplaces, products or new business ideas.
1. Start with a real frustration
The best business ideas often begin with an everyday problem hiding in plain sight.
2. Talk about your idea
Informal conversations won't validate a business, but they can help reveal whether a problem resonates.
3. Understand where demand is strongest
A marketplace needs both supply and demand, but one side may provide a clearer starting point.
4. Reduce barriers to participation
The easier it is for people to try your platform, the easier it is to create momentum.
5. Look for a genuine win-win model
The strongest marketplaces create value for everyone involved.
6. Stay curious about customer needs
What looks unusual from the outside may represent a perfectly valid customer problem worth solving.
Thanks for reading Part 1
That's it for Part 1 of our Episode 5 recap. Part 2 is here, and you can check out the full episodes here:
If you prefer to read your small business info, we also have the full episode transcript available here.
Anaita
Welcome back to Unfinished Business. I'm your host, Anaita Sarkar, founder of Hero Packaging and author of Sell Anything Online. And today we're joined by a founder who took the annoying friction out of everyday chores and turned it into an Australian tech juggernaut. He is the co-founder and CEO of Airtasker, a platform that has completely redefined how Australians get work done and how flexible workers earn a living. It is Tim Fung. Welcome to the show.
Tim
Thanks for having me.
Anaita
I want to know how you even decided back in the day, I think it was 2011, wasn't it? How you decided that Airtasker was even a business that you wanted to start.
Tim
Well, I was, I'd just been introduced to doing another startup with a bunch of German expat founders who had come to Australia and built a company called Amaysim.
Anaita
Oh yeah.
Tim
So I had front row tickets to how this company got built and it was kind of eye-opening because back then it was less, I guess, packaged up how you go and do a tech startup. Like it wasn't like, oh yeah, you know, you go to this accelerator and there's this seed funding and then do this kind of thing. It was more just like, you know, Atlassian was around and that was probably about it in Australia. You know, there were others for sure, but it wasn't sort of the fanfare that there was today. So at the time I was moving apartments, I asked a friend to help me move, and that just got us thinking. He's like, that's a weird quirk in the system that you would ask your friend to help you move even though there's tons of people out there who would like to be able to earn a living by doing stuff. And that got us thinking, you know, maybe we could create that.
Anaita
So that was just it. That was like a— it was an idea, and then you just go, I'm just going to start a business around it. I mean, it's so hard to even think about something like that because when it comes to a tech business now, like you said, everyone is trying to do a tech business, everyone's trying to get into the AI space, and it's so much easier now. But back in the day, to even think about turning that idea of just getting help for moving houses into a business would have been so difficult.
Tim
Yeah, I think, um, it was definitely not as packaged up as it is now, but it didn't sort of happen overnight. It was very much like I have an idea. And I have this habit of like, when I get an idea in my head, I kind of want to talk about it with lots of people, probably to like an annoying level. And so, you know, I sort of pitched it to a friend and then pitched it to my roommate at the time and then pitched it to my now wife.
Anaita
Yes.
Tim
And this was kind of the idea that most people said wasn't a terrible idea. Like most of the ideas I've had, people are like—
Anaita
It was like, I don't know.
Tim
No, it'd be worse than that. Like, you know, I've got pretty open relationships with my friends and stuff to the extent they're just like, That is terrible, you suck. You're almost, you've wasted my life by telling me that idea.
Anaita
Wasted 20 seconds.
Tim
Yeah, this one was more like, oh yeah, okay, maybe.
Anaita
And you were like, I'm in, I've gotta go.
Tim
I got low standards, you know? So I was like, wow, this is great feedback, let's go.
Anaita
Oh, I love that. Okay, well, 'cause Airtasker is a marketplace, right? And marketplaces are notoriously hard to start. But the thing that I find really difficult when it comes to these sorts of businesses is you've got two types of customers. You've actually got the customers who are gonna use services, and then you've got the taskers. How did you go about finding like the first 10 or the first few taskers and the first few customers?
Tim
So I think one of the really hard things about a company like Airtasker is it is a marketplace. It's built on network effects.
Anaita
Yes.
Tim
And one of the things that we were really passionate about the whole way through is that we didn't want to tell people what to do, and we didn't want to tell them what price to set and things like that. We wanted it very much to be a platform where people are empowered to actually do what they want to do and get done what they want to get done without us sort of stepping in the middle of that. So that kind of made it turbo difficult, you know, because we're trying to bring people together, but you can't really control anyone and tell them what to do.
Anaita
Yeah.
Tim
I think one of the things that was an interesting insight, which wasn't strategic, it all happens along the way. Like we didn't— sit there and write a business plan and then follow it. We were more like, get out there, give this a crack, and then see what sticks. And what stuck was that for taskers, we built a really great deal, which is that you don't have to pay anything upfront to have to give Airtasker a go. And I think that was really different from basically everyone else, which is, you know, if you want— if you're a plumber and you want to join an advertising directory or something like that, they say you pay us first upfront, pay upfront. And so no one wants to give that a crack. Whereas what we said is come into our club, see all of the customers, talk to people, you make some money, we're going to charge you some money.
Anaita
Right.
Tim
And so creating that sort of win-win situation was, I think, a massive unlock.
Anaita
I love that. And it was— it's kind of like chicken and the egg because it's like, who do you focus on? Do you focus on getting more customers so that you get more taskers, or do you get more taskers so the customers have a choice? Like, how did you balance that?
Tim
We knew that money is something that's pretty much a universal currency. Like, everyone wants to make money. So what we have found out along the way is that If you found jobs, you would find people who want to do those jobs because the money side of it, you know, depending on how much money that is, is going to always make sense. And so we focused really hard on finding the customers because if someone puts up their hand and says, I'm willing to pay $500 for X, then we, you know, we were like, it's going to be easier to match that side. So that was part of the equation.
Anaita
That's really interesting. And I feel like you would have seen so many weird tasks. go through your platform. I want to know, is there anything that's really weird or strange, and what's the weirdest one that you have seen?
Tim
So if I step back and think about the word weird, first of all, it's really funny because like what's weird to you and I, when we go and ask some of these people— because, you know, we'll often give people a call and go like, so you like want this thing? And they'll be like, yeah, why not? Yeah, like with a straight face. And so what's weird to us is really wonderful and normal to somebody else. So, you know, I love seeing every Halloween people coming up with various Halloween costumes. So, you know, Barbie costume, alien costume. Someone has put up, I want, I want to be dressed up as a German Bundt cake and it must be a Bundt-style cake, you know. And we're kind of like, that's so oddly specific. And so generally what we find is what is funny is people who are really specific.
Anaita
Yes.
Tim
You know, need photos of berries. must be frozen berries, cannot be with acai or something. And you're just like, wow.
Anaita
Wow, that's really specific.
Tim
It is. And it's, but it's what honestly makes humanity and life kind of beautiful. It's like, you know, what's funny to me is serious to someone else. They probably think that a lot of the things that I do are funny. And that's what makes it fun.
Anaita
Oh, I love it. Now it's time for Reality Check. And this is the part of the show where we pull back the curtain on entrepreneurship, the real, raw, and did that actually just happen moments. We've got the tapes ready. Let's listen to our first one.
Listener 1
So what happened is I was pitching to a somewhat difficult but a very important potential client over a video call. I had spent days working on the deck. I'd gotten into good shape despite the multiple rounds of feedback from him. So I was feeling pretty confident. So what happened is I'm running through the presentation deck and what I didn't realize is I was sharing the entire desktop and not just the presentation window. So around the time I was coming to the end of the presentation, that's when I realized I had my internal chat visible in the corner the entire time. And so my colleague had been writing all sorts of commentary about how annoying this client was, like something like, I can feel my soul departing from his emails, blah, blah, blah. And the client had just sat there on the call for like 20 minutes reading all of it. Yeah, so I think it's no surprise we didn't win that deal.
Anaita
Okay, well, I mean, to be honest, that's relatable because I feel like we've all done it. Has anything like that ever happened to you before?
Tim
So I'm pretty bad. I guess I'm old school now. You know, it's funny. Now I'm a millennial and millennials are sort of called in the same way as boomers, you know, like in our workspace, people kind of love that. But as a millennial, I think one of the lessons that I always got told is like, do not put anything in writing that you don't want basically everyone to see because You're basically leaving something behind every time.
Anaita
Exactly.
Tim
So I'm pretty big on probably keep that one to yourself and ideally, ideally talk about it later. So I haven't had that one, but I've had, you know, millions of catastrophes in pitching people.
Anaita
Oh, I— oh, in pitching people. Yeah, I mean, I've had personal things like that happen where, for example, I have accidentally forwarded the email to the wrong person or texted the wrong person. These things happen, right? But I think you are so right. And I feel like putting things in writing, and especially in a professional setting, if you own a business, just be very, very careful. And like, it could be Slack, it could be a text message to an employee, it could be anything. But if you put it in writing, it has to be something that if anyone reads it, it's going to be fine.
Tim
Totally. Like the front page newspaper test, I think is kind of a thing. Like if someone busted you saying what you're saying, would you be kind of like, yeah, I said that. Or would you be like, I wanna leave my body?
Anaita
In this situation, how would you have handled it?
Tim
You know, I think authenticity and vulnerability is usually the way to go. You know, if in that situation, I'd be more going to the client, it's like, this is really bad, isn't it? It's really bad. You're not gonna be a client, right?
Anaita
No?
Tim
Okay.
Anaita
Okay, good.
Tim
I think we can agree on that. Is it okay? Like, I'm having a really bad day. It's much better than sort of going on the defence or the attack.
Anaita
I completely agree with you. And I think that just saying, like, I really screwed up here, like, it's just—
Tim
Acknowledging when something's bad or awkward makes it less bad or awkward.
Anaita
Do you know, on another scale, so at the moment what I've been doing on social media is talking about how hard business is, right? What I have been really saying out loud is the stuff that no one wants to say. I'm having these uncomfortable conversations and the hard truths and kind of awkward things to say, hey, business is really tough for me right now. I think that having these awkward conversations and actually saying, I really messed up in this pitching session, or I really messed up in this Q&A, or, you know, you saw something you weren't supposed to, and I am really sorry. Like, I understand you're not gonna be a client of mine now, but I just wanna say I'm really sorry. And just fessing up to it, I think, is so nice and refreshing for people because everyone makes mistakes.
Tim
Totally. I think, yeah, at Airtasker, we're really big on talking about awkwardness. Yeah, you know, it's like, this is awkward, eh? It's awkward, you know? And it honestly makes it less awkward to talk about it.
Anaita
It does.
Tim
And, you know, I reflect on, you know, one of my young employees. I remember once in a meeting, we had about 12 people in the meeting, and I asked him a question. And actually, I remember him vividly saying to me, he's like, I can't really breathe. I'm quite nervous. Can I have like 20 minutes just think about the answer to that question and I'll come back to you? And I was like, bang on. I was like, that is awesome. The fact that you feel okay and you can call that out and reflect on that is awesome. Because I think a lot of people just kind of freak out and go, you're an idiot.
Anaita
Yeah.
Tim
And then regret it later. Whereas this was just like, it's a good question, but I just can't handle it, you know?
Anaita
I mean, that's so funny. But in the same token, like, I find that really nice and refreshing. And someone to say, By the way, I just need a bit of time to then respond to you properly 'cause I'm really anxious right now.
Tim
Yeah, I was like, that is like the most reflective or like introspective thing that you can sort of feel your own physiology and then go, yeah, this is not gonna be good if I respond to you from my heart.
Anaita
Yeah, this isn't good for me right now.
Tim
Yeah, it was great.
Anaita
Okay, I love that. All right, let's move on to the second tape. We've got one more to listen to.
Listener 2
Hi there, I own a small landscaping business in Brisbane. We had a job to do, a heavy cutback on some hedges at the front of a house. So the team drove out first thing Monday morning, pulled up to the address, and got straight to work with their whipper snipper. And then about 20 minutes in, this elderly bloke walks out in a dressing gown and looks very confused. He goes, what are you even doing in my garden? So then I checked my phone and realised my wife, who's our receptionist by the way, has mixed up the street names. We were in the wrong suburb entirely. So I had to pay out of pocket to replace the hedges we just destroyed. Lots of apologies were made.
Anaita
Yeah, yeah. I'll be honest with you. So I own a packaging company, and a lot of our orders come through as manual orders that people are emailing us, and then we have to ship things off. And when they do that, they say we need split shipments, we need this, and we need that, and there's a lot of moving parts. The number of times that people in the team, even me, have gotten that wrong is in the hundreds, right? Like, we are trying our absolute best. I wonder, and just, I wanna know from your side, how important are systems and not just, you know, we've got these like human beings who are handling a lot of the processes, right? How important do you think it is for small businesses to have kind of systems in the background to make sure these sorts of things don't happen?
Tim
Well, I think really important. I guess one of the things with Airtasker is we intentionally, or I intentionally do not get involved in the actual thing because I'm like, I would be terrible.
Anaita
You'd be the worst, yeah.
Tim
I would be terrible, I mean like I was late today for this podcast. So yeah, I try to stay as far away from that as possible. I guess 2 things for me is I do really think systems are important, like checks, double checks. Does this match this? Does this match that? And that is something that Airtasker is really good at. You know, we do security really well.
Anaita
Yes, you do.
Tim
We do ID verification really well, those kinds of things. But certainly like which hedge is to be cut, these are things that I find hard to systemise.
Anaita
You are a decision maker.
Tim
And I wanna be out of it 'cause I'm gonna do a terrible, terrible job.
Anaita
Were you ever part of it when you were a small business?
Tim
So I was really fortunate to have a co-founder who, who was more the operational side of the business and the technical side of the business. I think it is important to have the diligence, I guess. And that's one of the things I worked in bigger companies before I started my own company. And I think that was sort of formative to—
Anaita
Yes.
Tim
Hey, before you send that email, check it, double-check it. Have you checked it against, you know, this internal record? you know, make sure it's right. Because I do think those little slip-ups, they sort of add up to a bit of like your credibility in the long run.
Anaita
Reputation.
Tim
Yeah. So for example, one of my big things would be like, when you're going to reach out to someone and, um, you know, be able to spell their company name, that has to be right. Like, if you get that wrong, it's just— you lose credibility. Or, you know, a lot of people will say capital A-I-R, space, capital T, Tasker, and we're like, that's not how you write Airtasker. And so someone reaches out to me and does that, I'm just like, ah, didn't really even have the diligence to do that.
Anaita
Interesting.
Tim
And it's not— that's not the main game, but it's definitely like a signal.
Anaita
It is a signal.
Tim
And, you know, in business, there's a lot more that can go wrong than can go right. You know, like, no one's going to become your client just 'cause. And so you kind of got to get everything right to make it work.
Anaita
I think so. I also think it's how you handle it when you make that mistake. So in this particular case, he's a landscaper and his team has cut the wrong hedges and it's his It's his wife that made the mistake, you know. I guess it's, they've gone out of, like, they've taken money out of their own pocket to fix that, and then they've gone and done the proper job as well. And that's all you can do in this situation. The other thing I would suggest, and this is just talking from experience, is when these mistakes happen, acknowledging internally how that happened and fixing that process.
Tim
Mm-hmm.
Anaita
'Cause if your business becomes better 1% at a time, it's ultimately gonna be a better business by the end of the year. And I found that the number of mistakes I've made, 'cause sometimes I have to step into customer service. I don't want to as the founder, but we're so busy that I feel like sometimes I need to help. I'm the worst at customer service. I make all the mistakes, you know, because that's not what I'm good at. And so every time I do make a mistake or every time the team makes a mistake, the best thing that we do is sit down together as a team and go, what was the mistake? It's not me misspelling something. It's actually, I have sent this to the wrong person. How can we make sure this never happens again?
Tim
Mm.
Anaita
You know, what is the thing that we can put in place so that there is a check for me? I think that's really important.
Tim
Totally. One of the great systems that they have in like software engineering is like a Five Whys process of like, okay, why did that happen? And then, you know, without blame, why did this happen? And then you sort of say, well, why did that happen? And then why did that happen? And why did that happen? And if you kind of trace it all the way back, you can often like find the root cause of these kinds of problems.
Anaita
Oh, I love that.
Tim
Yeah, it's a cool system that, you know, it's sort of been codified in software engineering.
Anaita
Do you know what? I feel like in the corporate world, the corporate world has all these systems in place from like hundreds and hundreds of years. It's something that we can all learn as small businesses, like the Five Whys. I also was speaking to my friend who is pretty high up at a bank, and the way that they do leadership is also really different too. And making mistakes and how they deal with it in the team is, is something to learn. And I wish we had that knowledge base and like skills as small businesses as we're growing. I'd love to have that information. Where did you learn it all?
Tim
Well, I used to work at Macquarie, and that was a really good balance of entrepreneurialism, but also like, you know, risk-taking and things like that. So they, they really encouraged risk-taking, but then they had a risk management department like that.
Anaita
Yeah.
Tim
A large proportion of the company are people going, but what about this? But what about that? Have you thought about this? And you had to kind of answer and cover off all of these questions. That was really good. I think one of the things I would say is like just to balance it, like, you know, in small business, you've often got to be out there taking a lot of shots on goal and giving things a lot of tries. And so I think you do have to have that culture of you can make mistakes because you've got to try a lot of things. And if you tighten up too much, the flip side of that is, you know, you do put in place too many of these processes, but then your employees are a bit like, oh, it's just really hard to do stuff.
Anaita
You can't do anything, you can't be creative.
Tim
Right. So I think you've got to get that balance right. But it is tricky. And I guess that's why business. That's why business is hard, 'cause there's no right answer.
Anaita
Yeah, there really isn't.
Tim
I just want that answer.
Anaita
Now it's time for the Growth Hotline, where a real small business joins us live on set to talk about where they're at and a specific challenge they're facing. Our guest today is Min Chai, the co-founder of Tokyo Lamington. What started off as a joke on a park bench in Tokyo has turned into an iconic bakery, actually three bakeries in Sydney and Melbourne, reinvented the classic Australian lamington with bold flavors such as yuzu, tiramisu, and fairy bread. Min, welcome to the podcast.
Min
Hi, thanks for having me.
Anaita
Of course. And I, I want to know, maybe you can tell everyone who you are and how this business started.
Min
So my name is Min, and the business started when we got really drunk in Tokyo. And we were saying between my business partner and I, we were saying, wouldn't it be funny if we sell lamingtons in Japan?
Anaita
Yeah.
Min
And what started as a joke sort of happened. COVID happened. We had to come back to actually do something. And we just thought, why don't we— we had this idea in our pocket. Why don't we give it a go? Initially, it was a tough time for us because, you know, COVID, right?
Anaita
Yeah.
Min
Our income was very, very meagre. So we just thought we save our little pool of money and then we just step by step built the business just between Eddie and I. Again, originally we thought it's just going to be like a little fad, three months and we're done. But six years later and we are still here and better.
Anaita
What do you think got you from having that small pool of money going through COVID or a drunk idea? Sorry, a small pool of money going through COVID. And then now you've got two bakeries in Sydney, one in Melbourne. That gap of like how you got from like thinking it's only a 3-month thing to having these three bakeries, how did that happen?
Min
Oh, there's so many factors involved, but I think the main part of it is we focus really heavily on what we believe, like in our philosophy, rather than just trying to sell a product that's popular on social media. We focus on what we do. We talk about lamingtons like it's a perfect vehicle for flavours and all. And a big part of what we do is also between my business partner and myself, we just thought, We want a business that reflects ourselves. A big believer in sustainability in hospitality business because, you know, being in hospitality, there's just so much plastic. And part of what we do is, you know, we want to go, okay, let's reimagine how we package food products. And, you know, now that we've got lamington and all that sort of tied together and sort of became like our identity, our brand.
Anaita
Show us, like, I know you've got it here. Show us the packaging and what you've got.
Min
So we custom designed this ourselves. It's just a brown cardboard tube. And the best part is when you open the box, you know, you can have this little insert that you lift up so you don't have to touch the product while you take the product out. So it's just part of the whole experience. So we talk a lot about customer experience rather than just buying a product and eating it. It's about, you know, receiving the product, opening it up and the surprise and, you know, the whole process, the whole ritual.
Tim
Yeah.
Min
Yeah.
Anaita
Well, as a packaging founder, let me tell you, I'm frothing over the packaging at the moment. One is because I have always believed in sustainable packaging. You've got something that's fully recyclable, plus it's like you've got the, um, the— you've actually thought about people not reaching in with their fingers and trying to grab it. It lifts up, and it's not easy to do. So I like— I love that. But then also you lifted up the fairy bread one, which is the thing that I want to try the most. So after this, I'm gonna Devour that one. What is the most popular flavour, would you say?
Min
Oh, so the most popular, of course, the classic. So we have our OG lamington, which is just sponge, jam, cream, and chocolate and coconut. You know, you can't, you can't beat a traditional kind of flavour combination. And the next one is favourite. So we've got popcorn buttercream and hundreds and thousands. I think a lot of what we do also, it's all about the nostalgia of the product. So rather than just a cake, It's about bringing you back to that moment. The moment of eating lamington, the moment of eating a fairy bread. And of course, we put our little modern spin on it, like the flavours like yuzu meringue, the tiramisu. Yeah, it's just, it's just all the fun that we have along the way.
Anaita
Well, we've got Tim here and I would love to get into the challenge of what you're facing right now so you can get some really good advice.
Min
I think one of the challenges we are facing now, especially as a hospitality business, is the rising cost of living. You know, there's a big pressure on cost of living. And also as a business ourselves, the cost of ingredients and operations is getting higher.
Anaita
Right.
Min
So we are facing pressure from both sides. I guess it's, you know, the challenge for us now is like, how do we navigate this time? Like, you know, there's only a certain price point where people will be happy to pay for lamington. And also, you know, yeah, and cost of ingredients are still escalating every year.
Anaita
Yes, absolutely.
Tim
It's obviously really tricky and everyone's feeling the pinch, so that is hard. I think one of the things I'd say in terms of keeping your costs in check, I would say that it's better to have less people in the team but working harder and paid well than it is to just add more people. I think one of the mistakes that we've often made is, you know, you kind of hear from people, I'm really busy, and so we need to hire more people to like go get a thing done. And often what we found is like when you bring more people into it, it actually gets harder because now everyone's got to sort of coordinate with more people and that. And I think one of the things that we sort of learned accidentally along the way was that having less people in the team, but making sure they're really motivated, incentivized, like paying everyone, you know, 10% more than you might need to pay, but having maybe 20% less staff might be better than the other way around. So That's maybe one bit of experience that I can share.
Anaita
I feel the exact same way. And we've been doing more and more of that and reworking the team because you're right, a lot of the time people say they're super busy. And then when you look into it, you're like, well, you actually can be a bit more efficient in this way and this way. And hiring the right people is actually gonna save you money in the long run. A business like yours is a destination business. So when I see it on TikTok, for example, and I've seen it all over TikTok, right? When I see it on TikTok, I go to my family, hey, we're going there on the weekend. The kids are excited, my husband's excited, I'm excited. We all love lamingtons, we all love fairy bread, we all love yuzu. So like, I want to get there. By the time I get there, I'm willing to spend whatever it is. As a customer, I actually don't do a lot of online shopping anymore. I have cut back. So my share of wallet for all those things has actually decreased a lot. But when I see an experience and I know that not only me and my husband will enjoy it, but my kids will enjoy it, I'm coming to you and I'm willing to spend whatever it is. I think you need to really keep on tapping into that because, like, for example, if I go to a coffee shop, no matter what the coffee costs, I'm buying it. I've come all this way. I don't look at the price of the coffee and go, you know what, today I'm going to leave it and leave the coffee shop. Same thing for you. I think you are a destination business. And I think if you can tap into that more and more and more— and I know it's not just about social media because it's so precarious, but If you can really tap into that, people are coming there and it's like almost like a tourist destination too, right? Because a lamington in Tokyo is like that feeling of Australia somewhere. If you tap into tourism, right, that people come here and they know that lamingtons are so iconic.
Tim
I doubled down on that hard. I think people would be willing to pay a lot for your product.
Min
Yep, that's a great idea. I think we will definitely look into that. Yes.
Anaita
All right. Well, is there anything else? Because I know we've spoken about cost cutting, which I think— not cost cutting, but maybe making your team more efficient. And also kind of growth strategies or bringing people in and making money in a destination or experience kind of way. Is there anything else that you have advice on?
Tim
I would say we talked about the main ones, which would be like obviously growth and like new products. I think that is something that is really important to keep on innovating and coming up with the next S-curve. Like we talk about this a lot, you should expect that any product you sell sort of starts slow, goes through a growth surge, but at some point it's going to start tapping out. And so if you want to stay on top of your game, you got to constantly be like coming up with the new things. So merch, loyalty programs, membership, these kinds of things, I think you do have to keep coming up with new stuff. The other one is the pricing thing. I think as founders, one of the things we often find is we always want to like maximize the number of people who say yes. You know, when someone comes into your store, you kind of don't want someone to go, oh, that's a bit expensive. Okay, not this time or something like that. And I do think that we have a bias towards that, i.e., you know, if you charge 20% more for your product, you're going to find the people who really love that product. And I think often it's much less drop-off than you think. Like, I think it's often like a fear-based thing. You're like, If I put my lamington price up by say $2, I'm going to have this massive drop-off. And we found time and time again that if you're building a product that people love, the people that, you know, that do want to buy your product, they're okay with $2, you know. So I do think that pricing is a big one.
Anaita
I am still in awe of hearing you speak. Like, I just think it's so smart what you're saying. I think in terms of new products, something else that you could potentially think about as well is really mapping out seasonal. I think you already do this, like seasonal merch and things like that. But say Father's Day is coming up, right? And having a Father's Day lamington or a Dad lamington or something, you know, really tapping into all the things that are coming up. And then you've got Halloween, which I'm, I'm pretty sure you would, you know, go real deep into that.
Tim
Yeah.
Anaita
But really focusing in on like getting people there for a certain occasion, not just the regulars that come in. I think increasing your pricing is going to make you more money and you won't see any drop-off. And, and I believe that to be true, and I think a lot of small businesses could learn from that as well. I think it's such a smart thing to think about. We're so worried all the time about increasing prices. We've had to do it, and I always think they're just not coming back to us. They'll just go— because, you know, like I said, packaging is commoditized. They're just going to go to the cheaper thing. We have doubled down on our service and we bend over backwards for people. and we will get you packaging the next day, you know. So your thing is you are unique, you've got a unique product, your service is amazing, you're in three locations, like you've got an incredible place to bring people to. I think increasing your prices is probably one of the smartest moves that you could make in this time. I don't think you're going to see any demand fall off.
Tim
One other thing I would add is like, I think I feel like you've got a really good brand and a really good story. And so like being really authentic and genuine and having a bit of fun in your business of like, just doing those things that you love because I'm guessing that a lot of people love Tokyo Lamington because they're kind of buying into your story and ethos and kind of things. And so I think that like, you know, what's the thing that you really love? And I think be okay with like giving those things a crack. You know, it's kind of like if you really love sneakers or something, put some sneakers in your store and tell that story. And I have no idea about sneakers. It's just an example. But, you know, like, you're like, I'm passionate about this spatula is the best spatula. You should like, you know, tell that story because I do feel like people buy into brands and authentic stories and stuff as much as they're like, oh, there's this, you know, thing that I can consume and eat. It's not that functional. It's actually more like human and emotive. And I think if you keep embracing that, then people can feel the authenticity and they'll probably buy into it more.
Min
Oh, great. Yes.
Anaita
Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Minh. It's been so good to talk to you. I'm really excited for after this podcast actually to actually eat all the lamingtons. We're going to share some of those. And Tim, your expertise has just been phenomenal. You are an icon and you have created an iconic business in Australia. And I just, I'm so looking forward to seeing you succeed even more. And thank you so much for being with us today.
Tim
Thanks for having me.
Min
Thank you. Thank you so much for the great ideas and we're definitely going to do it.
Anaita
Thank you for listening to Unfinished Business from Vodafone Business. Listen now on all major podcast platforms and YouTube. I'm Anaita Sarkar, and I will catch you next time.
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