Unfinished Business Podcast Episode 6: How Naked Sundays Made Sunscreen Stand Out

Anaita

Welcome back to Unfinished Business. I'm your host, Anaita Sarkar, founder of Hero Packaging and author of Sell Anything Online. And today we are joined by an entrepreneur who completely revolutionized the way we think about sun protection. She is the founder and CEO of Naked Sundays, the viral multi-award winning beauty brand that made SPF fun, glowy and an essential part of daily skincare. From navigating Australia's notoriously strict TGA regulations to expanding onto shelves globally. She is an absolute powerhouse in e-commerce, product innovation and brand building. Welcome to the podcast, Samantha. Thanks, Anaita.

Samantha

Thanks for having me. Oh my God, I you know I adore you.

Anaita

I'm always in your DMs. We are friends. Everyone needs to know we are friends. Okay? But I love you and I love everything that you've done, and I want you to tell everyone how you went from being a news reporter, a journalist, to suddenly deciding that you want to have a sun care, skincare business. Yes.

Samantha

So I didn't actually decide I wanted any business. I just saw a huge gap in the market. So as you said, I was on TV and I was actually on sunrise and I was it was my dream. I wanted to be live on sunrise ever since I was a little kid, and I did work experience there during school. And when I finally got there and I was live on it every single morning, I realised that I was actually outside reporting with a full face of makeup, but in the sun. And as you know, sunrise starts at 530 in the morning and I would be reporting out sometimes the story would continue on 5:00 news, 6:00 news, sometimes all night. And I started to notice a trend that people in my industry on TV outdoors would, be coming back to work after a few weeks off and they would have, like a big cut across their face. Or one girl had staples in her head. One of my colleagues had something cut out of her nose, and I was thinking, what is all this? And it turned out to be skin cancers. And it's one of those things where when you put on a full face of makeup, you don't think about sunscreen. And I was getting ready at 3:00 in the morning, and by the time 9 a.m. rolled around, even if I did put on sunscreen at that time, sunscreen only lasts for two hours when you're outdoors. Yes, so I had no sunscreen on by 9:00 am. And so I thought to myself, well, how can I wear sunscreen or top it up throughout the day over my makeup? Because I definitely didn't want to redo my beautiful makeup. And so I thought, what if I could create a spray that would spray over your makeup like rose water and smell beautiful and have SPF 50? And so I set out to create something and it took about two years and samples were horrible and white and sticky. And my whole point was it needs to be clear, smell beautiful and not ruin your makeup. Yes. And there was nothing that existed out there. And finally, finally I got a sample that I loved. We launched in January 2021. I didn't tell anyone it was me, the news reporter because I wanted to keep my job and it completely blew up and went viral. And so it wasn't that I decided to create a brand at all, but the product led me to create the brand.

Anaita

That is amazing. I can't believe it's only 2021. Like you've done so much in that time.

Samantha

And I did things in half. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can tell.

Anaita

But in that time, like what I've noticed about your business in particular is that a lot of skincare brands and, sorry, a lot of sunscreen, I should say brands are very clinical. I want to know how you differentiated yourself from that. I know you're branding is really stands out online, but how did you go about doing that. And and is that the way that you went viral? Like how how.

Samantha

That is the way and I think and that's a really good point that you make, because back when I started thinking about this in 2019, I actually went into Sephora and I asked if I can buy a sunscreen. And there were they said, we don't sell any. So back then when I thought of this idea, there was no cool girl skincare sunscreen products out there that were made for, for consumers that would buy something at Sephora. Yeah, none. And so there was such a white space and a huge gap in the market. And I thought to myself, how do you get this makeup lover, beauty lover, skincare lover to want to wear sunscreen when it is so clinical and it ruins your makeup? It's white, it's sticky, and it smells bad. It does. And so I did a survey and I went online and I found a survey. And you can survey 2000 people in a demographic. And so I surveyed at the time the cohort was millennials. We didn't even have Gen Z back then. Yeah. Can you believe it? And I asked them, what do they hate about sunscreen? And why don't they wear it every single day? And it came up with because it's white, it's sticky, it smells bad and it ruins my makeup and I can't wear it with makeup. And so that was the whole brand. How do I make something that is cool and fun and simple to use and doesn't ruin your makeup? And that became the premise of the whole brand in 2020. Then we had the bushfires hit the crazy bushfires in New South Wales. And so I was the reporter. It was New Year's Day and I'll never forget it. But I was the reporter that went first to the scene where an entire town was decimated from these bushfires. And I went and I slept on this kid's bunk bed because there was no nowhere for us to sleep. We weren't allowed in or out. And I just remember sitting there in the dark, my phone didn't even work, and I just thought, okay, if I do this sunscreen thing, it's got to be the most fun, cool, interesting, healing, packaging and name that I can think of that people will love to use it. People are obsessed with Naked Sundays. Yes. So we went with Lilac and Rainbow and Holographic and this cool, sexy name of Naked Sundays. Like, what is that? Well, Sunday is my favourite day, and Naked Skin is my favourite type of skin on your face that you know when you're not wearing makeup and your skin is beautiful because you've been wearing your sunscreen every day. So that's why I pushed through that. Happened to resonate is that luck? Is that I don't know what it is.

Anaita

A whole bunch of stuff.

Samantha

I think it's a whole bunch of stuff. Because I did do that study on millennials, and I did discover that back then. Lilac wasn't cool either, by the way. But I did discover that lilac mint green and not millennial pink, but it was like a new sort of candy pink that was coming through were colours that would resonate with that cohort. So I'm thinking, okay, how do we get this entire generation of people to start loving sunscreen, which is an old, tired, boring category. And so it worked.

Anaita

Well, I mean, you're a pioneer in making something super boring and super clinical, something that everyone has now on their table, which is crazy to me because prior to that year, I actually didn't use sunscreen at all. And now I use your sunscreen every single day. Just sits there on my table because, and I don't know how you did it, you just got onto my table and my shelves and it's a permanent fixture now. And I want to know one more thing before we get into the next section, which is you have become a global brand, like one of these Australian brands that has absolutely taken over the US market and other markets. What is your leadership style when it comes to expanding internationally?

Samantha

Try everything you can really and just don't take no for an answer. And I think maybe it's the news reporter in me that always had to get the story. And it's now, well, you know, we have to get our products in as many hands in places as possible. But I really, from the beginning wanted the brand to go into the US. And so I formulated it for us formulations. I made sure that we were regulated in in that jurisdiction, which is extremely difficult to do with sunscreen, which is a regulated product in the US as well. And then I just went after the retailers, celebrities started using it. So we got into the hands of Khloé Kardashian, Alix Earle. Khloé Kardashian actually had skin cancer and was looking for a sunscreen and found Naked Sundays and posted a 90-second reel about us. And that enabled us to go into another retailer, which is Ulta, which is the biggest beauty retailer in America. And then Alix Earle, which just really went viral as well last year when she started using our foundation beauty screen. So I just didn't take no for an answer. And I just kept pushing. And I think, as I said to you at the beginning, I don't do things in halves. And if I wanted to go into the US, I knew we needed a Kardashian, we needed Alix Earle, we needed to be in the best retailers. Yes, but I really will come back to this and it's really important. You have to have a product that is differentiated enough and has such a clear message that that audience can understand who you are and why you're different.

Anaita

I think having a brand alone is not enough. The product itself has to be your moat at the end of the day. Now, we all know that behind every successful business is a graveyard of facepalm moments. So now it's time for a reality check. And this is where our listeners have sent in their absolute best business blunders so we can laugh, learn, and realize we're all just figuring it out as we go. So let's hit play on our first anonymous confession.

Listener 1

So I'm meant to email the generic accounts inbox, but thanks to predictive texts for my recipients, I sent it to the all staff list by accident and I wasn't quick enough to send. Every single employee opened their inbox to see a complete breakdown of what all their coworkers were earning, and had all weekend to look at it, too.

Samantha

It's oh, I don't even.

Anaita

Know where to go from here. Do you know what? It's so bloody relatable. Like, these things do happen. And when you're doing all these things, sometimes you do things in a rush, right? And it's like this. This has happened. Now, if it was up to you, if this had happened to you, where do you go from here?

Samantha

I think you ignore it. I think it is. Absolutely. You pretend like it never happened and you move on. Because what are you meant to do? Every person in your whole office is going to come up to you and ask for a salary increase, or complain why their salary is not up to scratch from another person, or be really happy because they're the the highest earner, and even that person will probably come and ask for it, right? So you have to just pretend it never happened. And then I've heard this happening as well. Salaries leaked from big companies. They say no, those were false numbers. Ignore them. Oh, I love the news reporter in you. I love it like dishing out all the tea.

Anaita

so I was thinking about this, okay. And I'm thinking that I would probably be very transparent. I think I feel like I would call everyone in and say, I know you've seen all the numbers. Like, let's discuss your salary and let's talk about it. Are you saying that maybe that's not the way to do it? I mean, you think of things very differently.

Samantha

No, I want to learn because I feel like maybe I just need to address it.

Anaita

Because now it's out there and transparency is out there and you kind of use it to your advantage a little bit.

Samantha

Have you seen that recent J-Lo movie where they are having an office romance, and then it gets discovered, and then the whole office is lining up to ask HR if they can have an office romance.

Anaita

That's what's going to happen.

Samantha

You're going to have your entire team lining up, knocking on your door, saying, I want a salary increase to be like that person. Ignore it. Let me know. I saw the email. It was wrong. Don't worry about it. Deny deny deny. And you heard it here first, everyone. You're going to cause more problems for yourself.

Anaita

That is fascinating to me because I. You know, there's a law in Australia. I believe that it's like a salary transparency. You're not allowed to tell people to not discuss their salaries. And so even at like these big banks and stuff, when people say, this is my salary, back in the day, it was like, you're allowed to prevent that from happening and now you have to allow all this transparency stuff. So my first assumption of this whole thing is that I would just say it to people like, oh, you've seen all the salaries and this is how I'm going to handle it. Like, you know, if you want to discuss your salary with me, let's do it.

Samantha

But then what's the next step? Are you going to say to every single person in your office, but we're not doing salary increases right now.

Anaita

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Look, if if you're ready to have that conversation with every single person in your office, fine. And I think we all have to be aware that these are people's entire lives. Yeah. They come to work. They use the salary to feed their family and pay their mortgages or their rents. I feel like that's exactly why, though. Because I feel like if you ignore it, for example, will they just feel resentful of the place that they work? And I, you know, I don't want that to be the case because it is their livelihood, and I don't want them to be not motivated when they come.

Samantha

I think, yes, they will be resentful, but if you address it, they will still be resentful.

Anaita

Yeah, true. So it's a lose lose. I'm so sorry that this happened to this anonymous person. We feel your pain. I feel your pain so much. Every time from now on, you send an email. You know, there's like, a 30-second pause that you can make for yourself to reread and recheck. Yes. And pause. And maybe that's the advice here. Don't send emails without pausing.

Samantha

I think also before you hit that send button on whatever you're doing, Just triple confirm everything. Especially when it comes down to numbers, confidential information, personal information. Just be very careful. Yes, I have recently. So my CFO is called Joe, but I have a Joe in my emails and I sent all our financials to the wrong Joe. It's not a staff member. It's an outside person, which is even worse.

Anaita

It's even worse.

Samantha

It's like we've all done it recently.

Anaita

The mistake is common and universal, and you just have to figure it out as you go. All right. Let's listen to the next tape.

Listener 2

So I run a small yoga studio and I'm the only instructor. So I don't have the fanciest tech or anything like that. I've got a calendar widget thingy on my website so clients can see the class times and book themselves in. And because I'm a one-person show, I also use this calendar for my personal life. And sometimes, you know, if I'm on the road or getting the bus or whatever, I'm not paying attention and the calendars get mixed up. No big deal, right? Except the time I booked a laser hair removal appointment and I wasn't paying attention. And I accepted the confirmation email to my work calendar. And then the appointment was on display for every client to see on the website, until someone politely texted me to let me know. So yeah, at least they know my life admin is up to date I guess.

Samantha

I don't think it's a big deal. Do you think it's a big deal when these sorts of things happen?

Anaita

So I also have this problem and all my personal appointments have been unbeknownst to me, going onto the work calendar for quite a while. And recently my GM said to me, how was your hair appointment? And I said, how do you know? And he said, we all know. And how long has this been going on? And then he said, there's a very simple button that you can you can accept an appointment and change your calendar to your personal Gmail.

Samantha

Sam, we all know really well

Anaita

that's the thing. You know that we know, I don't know.

Samantha

You don't have to be in that calendar,

Anaita

but that is hilarious. And do you know what I love about that is that I don't care? Like if I was a team member or anyone in your exec team or anyone like, I don't care that you have a hair appointment.

Samantha

I mean, if people care, I think you've got to kind of question why, and it depends on what you're putting in there. Like if you're having bikini hair laser removal, I also don't care. Like go for it. If you want to do that, go for like for me, I think I maybe I'm looking at it from the point of view of the person who's made these sorts of mistakes before and shared too much, but I feel like I love that you guys know that now. Like, you know, I as a business owner as well, like the lady who submitted this, I want you to know that it's not a big deal. I think in our heads we think people care way more than they actually do. This is for everything. Like everything. Even oversharing on socials, even sending the wrong email. I mean, depending on what it is. But, you know, we we think so much and we overthink it and we feel so bad about it ourselves.

Anaita

And because that lady got a text message from one of her clients saying, hey, I saw this appointment, I think you could own it. Like, I reckon if you if this is your personality type, to actually address it with people like we were talking about in the other one, and

Samantha

I think this is a good time to do that. I think this is a good time because it's fun and it's funny and it's light hearted, and everyone gets laser or gets a wax or whatever it is. And so we all know we all understand that, that that's a fun thing. And I think you're right. I think that's something that she can say, you know. Hey guys, did you see my laser appointment? I now have a voucher from the laser clinic for everyone. Clap, clap. $20 off your next laser.

Anaita

What a good viral moment that would make it into something viral. Yes, honestly, the mistakes that I've made. One of the best things I've ever done is to post about them on social media. And so like I even just the fun ones, I mean, like you could say, this happened to me. I'm such an idiot and like, this is what's happened. Those sorts of things make you so much more human because ultimately we're all doing our bloody best and these things do happen. And so if you mix up your calendars, you mix up your calendars. Now everyone knows that you're hair free. So good on you.

Samantha

Yes.

Anaita

Now it's time to welcome our special guest for the Growth Hotline, the segment where we unpack a real challenge from a real small business here and now, with some helpful tips at the end. Joining us live on set today is Farina Cheng, founder of Farina Cheng Jewellery. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Lovely to be here. I am so excited because I had a look at your website last night and I love everything like the bespoke jewellery and just the this gem, not gems. What do you call them? The stones. Gemstones. Gemstones? Yeah, they're absolutely stunning. I want to know how you actually started this business and why you decided to get into bespoke jewellery as opposed to just mass produced. So I was.

Farina

Actually someone who I considered myself myself, someone who didn't actually like jewellery, because everything that I saw in the shops was boring, very traditional looking, very predictable. And so I just thought jewellery is not very interesting to me. But then I, as part of trying to get out of work on time one day a week, I decided to take on a jewellery making short course, and in that course I realised that if it didn't already exist, you could actually just make it. So that kind of opened up a whole new world where I realised you could create whatever it was that you wanted to create, and you didn't have to make it look like anything that you saw in shops. And so I started to think, oh, like jewellery designer quite like that. and I decided to take on some study to pursue becoming a jewellery designer. I like to create things that are different, and I don't like doing the same thing every year. Yeah. So going into custom was very much a natural shift for me, because I get to design something completely new with each person that I work with, and because I need jewellery to mean something a little bit more than just being pretty in order to really appreciate it. I like to say that I work with people who are rule breakers and story makers, so people who want something a little bit different from the traditional and also want that opportunity to incorporate their story into their piece so that in addition to being beautiful, of course it's always going to be beautiful. It's also really meaningful. Yes, that's kind of that's what makes it exciting to get up and go to work every day.

Anaita

I feel like the emotional side of the business and the storytelling side is so important. Have you heard or like I assume you talk to your customers one on one because they're telling you their story and then you're making something for them. What is like a customer story if you're willing to share like that? You've heard that was super emotional or like something so special for you.

Farina

I had a customer who, was actually being quite terribly bullied by her family. We created her a ring that was that kind of brought together the people in the animals. That meant a lot to her in her life. It was a lot of colour, a lot of, kind of quite chaotic gemstones all mixed together into one piece. And she kind of treated that piece as a shield. So when she, you know, went to family events that she didn't quite feel comfortable that she would wear that piece of jewellery. And, and it would make her feel strong and able to kind of stand up to, you know, face whatever it was that she needed.

Anaita

To.

Farina

Face.

Anaita

that is that's actually amazing. Like, I love that a piece of jewellery can do that. I feel like it's a really interesting thing because it's so symbolic, almost. It's like a signal to yourself that I can get through anything. And I think that's just amazing. I would love to get into the challenge of why you're here today. We've got Sam to answer any questions that you have, and I just want to kind of dig into what challenge you're facing.

Farina

Yeah. So I've been doing this for about 14 years now and grew quite slowly, I feel, because I was doing a lot of I was doing everything, and I still am doing a lot. And what's really important to me is knowing everyone's name, speaking individually with each and every customer. And it feels difficult for me to grow the business and scale it, while still holding on to the humanness that I feel is really important in my business. So that's always been a challenge for me, letting go and allowing myself to, feel guilty saying it step away from from the everyday tasks and work on the bigger picture vision.

Samantha

Well, firstly, Farina, I love what you're doing. And that story you just told just absolutely gave me chills. And you really have found an amazing niche. And I think it's such a special thing that you're doing. And I can just picture so many use cases when you get engaged and you want a special piece of jewellery from someone you love or, or or you have a child and you want to represent that, or like, it's like almost like a tattoo, but in jewellery. Yes. Now, if we think about the tattoo artists, well, the reason that they have that strength is because it's one on one. You're listening to their story. You're spending hours doing the tattoo. Same with you. And I just think you need to make a really clear decision. Do I want to continue on this route whereby I am one on one, listening to the story, taking hours upon days upon weeks to make the jewellery and keeping in that niche? Or do I want to go a little bit more mass and take the growth? But then what comes with that is not as one on one bespoke conversations. and it's more a mass play. We often grapple with the same thing because you have bespoke packaging, but then you have a mass business as well, and you don't want to give up your bespoke packaging, but you want the revenue from your mass. We were just talking about. So you can separate your so you can separate your arms. And as you were talking, I was thinking about the one arm which is your bespoke and then the one which is your mass. And so you can keep the one on one, but also and maybe it's a case of making a bunch of pieces, but that can also feel bespoke, i.e. we're now making these necklaces and each one has a different colour gemstone. Pick your gemstone or pick your gemstones. Like almost like we do it. Build your own bundle. Build your own piece of jewellery. So you're you're giving them a bit of autonomy to make their colours. But at the same time, it's a mass play where you've already got those ready. And there's only three choices, for instance. But you need to you need to be comfortable with that, and you need to make that decision, and you need to know why you're making that decision, and then you need to go with it and run with it. And that is your decision? Yeah. You can do both, but you have to make the decision that now I'm doing both. You can't be a bespoke and one on one and not be all in, because it's so much work to then as we know to have then you've got to have the stock ready to go. Yeah.

Farina

Because that's separate.

Samantha

It's two separate businesses. You've got to make the decision whether you're going to have the two separate businesses or whether you're not. And if you do have the two separate ones, you have to go all in on your growth. And you may not have time to do all the bespoke ones anymore. But you will, like Anita, how do you split your time between your bespoke customers that you have to spend hours upon hours to try and understand what they want, their colours, sampling, etc.? How do you split up your time? That is the part of.

Anaita

The business that I can never give up anymore. Like I would never give up the custom side and the bespoke side because to me, I feel like that's really where the connection to the customer is. And also that's where my unique selling proposition is. Anyone can sell packaging ready to ship packaging. Honestly, it's become so commoditized that anyone can sell it and you just have to bring it in if you've got enough money to do so. I think for you, the one on one is where you shine, that is you. And even just talking to you, I can tell, like, I could tell you my deepest, darkest secrets and you'd be okay with it and you'd be able to, like, talk to me about it. You've got that kind of aura about you. I don't want you to let go of that. I think you can scale up your business. And remember, that scale doesn't mean you let go of that side of things. I think it means your systems and processes in the background scale you up, and you continue to do that human connection that one on one. And if you don't want to go into the ready to ship side and the mass production, which obviously will get you revenue, but it might not feel authentic to who you are, I think you need to figure out a way of using AI, using systems processes in the background, hiring the right people in the background so you can keep doing what you do best. And as it scales up, that human connection is never lost. You can't teach yourself and your aura to someone else. You can have people who can help you in that and maybe like also talk to customers and people can then request for you, you know, like a hairdresser, you can request for like the head hairdresser. But I think that and maybe you price it as such actually, where it's like you have people where you train up and if they want to speak to you, it's the price is a little bit higher just because you're giving them more of your time, but you scale up in the background. So your processes are doing so much work for you and so much of the heavy lifting bringing people in the door. And then you handle what you can and then hire for the human connection where you can't actually do it yourself. But I agree with Sam. I think that two parts of the business are a very conscious decision that you have to make. And yes, one of them is that it brings in more revenue for you, and you kind of lose a little bit of that human connection, which I know what you're grappling with that because I feel the same way. Or you continue doing what you're doing and you don't grow as fast. But that comes down to, I know this is going to sound really crappy, especially because.

Samantha

This is an emotional.

Anaita

Storytelling business. It comes down to cash too. It comes down to like, do you have enough money in your business to continue doing what you're doing? And if you do and you love it, continue what you're doing and scale up in the background. If you feel like you're not making enough money and you feel like there's got to be a better way. Even if that means losing yourself a little bit, then you can go into the mass production side of things as well.

Farina

Just listening to what you're both saying, every time someone brought up the bespoke kind of personal storytelling part, I was going, yes, yes, that's. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what I want. Anytime it was about mass production and, you know, serving more people. I kind of went.

Anaita

That's your answer.

Samantha

I was going to say, but would you, would you add another side that you don't get involved in? I could do that personally.

Farina

I could do that.

Samantha

As Anita says, and run that in the background because.

Farina

Your pieces are.

Samantha

Because your pieces are so beautiful. You can still be in the bespoke one on one, but. Would you scale that up in the background? Aside from you and separate it out? And does that give you the heebie jeebies or does that. Does that sit okay with you?

Farina

It's it's okay with me. But I don't think I could do I don't think it would be mass in any sense of the term. It would still be. I just couldn't help myself from wanting to talk to those people as well and personalise that experience as I almost to the level where I would the customer experience, but not quite.

Samantha

So how do you currently personalise the experience for the person that would want to buy that ring? For instance.

Farina

Every gemstone is really quite different, and even if they buy something that's listed on the website, we still have to almost make it from scratch as a custom piece because the shapes are different, so every piece is still made to order for the specific gemstone that we make it for. And in that sense, it's kind of it's semi-custom already, which is also what makes this mass produced side of the business difficult because you can't mass. We can't work from set moulds where we just have. I mean, we could look. I'm sure we could.

Samantha

Anything's possible. And it comes down to what Anita says. Do you want more cash? Do you want to continue on giving your time to every single piece? And I think it just comes down to those basic questions.

Farina

It would be about doing it differently to how I would do it.

Samantha

You cannot.

Farina

Individually versus ordering.

Samantha

And making a mould and having one size gemstone, and you would have to make that decision. And if that's not something you want to do, then how do you scale up the bespoke side when it's just one person? I thought that was a great idea of training up like a hairdresser, training up the other staff members and having a tiered system where if they get your time, it's one price and if they get the assistance, it's another price. And I love that idea.

Anaita

So what we're doing in like the packaging space is a bit different, but kind of similar is that I have decided that I'm going to price a white glove service. So we are constantly doing things for PR agencies, for example, where they need something yesterday. And so we are like, I, it's me working at night until about 10 or 11:00 at night, making their packaging because they need it the next day, and I charge them the same price as someone who wants it in, you know, three weeks time. And I've decided if I'm going to work that hard, I need to charge a bit more for it, and I'm calling a white glove service. We will bend over backwards for you, and I think thinking about your pricing in that way, if you want to continue down the bespoke side of things and just go, you know what? That's what feels good to me and not the other side of it. Fine. And that is your unique selling proposition and you should stick to that. But you want to scale that up. You've got to do it in a very smart way, means increasing pricing for your services. So you're not just selling jewellery, you're actually a service business that happens to sell jewellery, I think. So you need to price as such. And you need as you tier up the service and as as you tier up how much time and energy you're giving that needs to be priced higher, Not just the jewellery. So the jewellery is one thing, but then the service, maybe you can have pricing that way and scale up your business through service and not products.

Farina

Yeah, I definitely see myself as a service business that offers a product at the end product, but the journey of getting there almost like a therapist.

Anaita

Business, and.

Samantha

Then.

Anaita

You get jewellery as a prize at the.

Farina

End. Where else would you get that? Yeah, come to me and said, no, I don't recommend coming to me instead of a therapist. No, but I when you explain your white glove service, I go. That makes so much sense. Why would you charge the same amount as you would someone who wants it in three weeks? But then it's very difficult to then apply it to myself and go, oh wait, that's exactly the same situation and I should do that as well.

Anaita

It's so easy to like, look at others and be like, you should definitely do that. And then it's really hard to implement, but I'm just finding that we have to look after ourselves too. So you want to continue down this path? That's fine. And it's a great business. But if you want to scale up and make sure you have cash in the bank, which is one of the most important things that you can do is you've got to charge for your time and energy to. And again, you're a service business. You're not just a product business. So I think you can do that.

Samantha

And what's interesting, and I'm sure you'll notice this as well when you start this service. Have you started it yet?

Anaita

Not yet. It's about to go in there.

Samantha

What you girls will both notice is that customers will not shy away. In fact, they will come. They. You will have more customers because people respect when you are charging more for your time. They think, wow, this is more valuable. I want it more. And it becomes almost like, more appealing.

Anaita

Yeah, I know you know, what I'm thinking just on that point is you have jewellery that's not cheap. You know, like I've gone to your website, there's $2,000. 4000. Like, these are not cheap pieces that you just impulse buy.

Samantha

People who are.

Anaita

Ready and willing, they're going to spend that extra bit more for that extra bit of service, a little bit of like they want to go in there and they want to talk to you and they want to do those things. So don't be afraid to charge more for that.

Samantha

I know this is not a segment for you, but. Hello. working till midnight the night before a PR event. I'm a brand. We have a PR, and I know how urgent those packages are. We'll pay anything. Yeah, you have to get that in today. That's something that you urgently need. I think we all need to know our worth. And especially when it's our time. And especially when it's a service that is so valuable. Like what you're offering, which is next day PR packages for an urgent event. We both have brands. We both have PR events. We both know that we need that packaging the next day, and it does not now. And it does not matter how much it costs. Yes, because those influencers are going to come to that event and they need their their beautiful PR boxes. Yes, I am shocked. You need to know the worth of that because I can't get packaging the next day. If I have an event, it takes three months to ship to make and ship from China. At least this is an amazing service that everyone should know about, but you need to charge for it.

Anaita

After this podcast episode, I'm going to work and I'm going to implement it, I swear. And you need to as well.

Samantha

And you need to as well. Yes, absolutely. We cannot be shy to charge for that.

Anaita

Damn. All right. Well, I've learned something today. Well, Farina, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. Like, it has been amazing. Love your business, love your jewellery. I just want to see so much success from you and Sam. You are a legend, an absolute amazing powerhouse of a business owner. And I'm so glad that we got to talk to you today and just both of you. Thank you for being here. Thank you, thank you. I'm Anaita Sarkar. Thank you so much for listening to Unfinished Business from Vodafone Business. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube so you never miss an episode. I will catch you next time.